Observation 94223: Candelariella Müll. Arg.

When: 2012-05-05

Collection location: Pipi Valley, El Dorado Co., California, USA [Click for map]

Who: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)

No specimen available

on river rock

Proposed Names

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Recognized by sight
56% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Add Comment
By: Richard Droker (wanderflechten)
2012-05-10 10:22:51 CDT (-0400)

V. maura does not occur below the intertidal.

For next ABLS meeting bring SCUBA gear
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-05-10 02:14:13 CDT (-0400)

Great stuff. Thanks, Richard! [Maybe we can find a geologist to teach us how to distinguish rocks and stones while we’re at it.]

sorry, more of the same
By: Richard Droker (wanderflechten)
2012-05-09 22:37:48 CDT (-0400)

Browsing the library I came across the Kohlmeyers’ paper. Much more must have been written since then. Mycophycobises in my area include a “seaweed” Prasiola for which I should be on the lookout.

Very interesting to me how deep some true lichens are found to be. From Ovstedal and Smith (2001) Lichens of Antarctica and South Georgia some information on Verrucaria serpuloides as “known only on permanently submerged rocks and stones [don’t know what distinguishes the 2] below the lowest ebb tide level 1-10m below low water mark…the only true marine lichen known” (and some references). Other species of Verrucaria occur even deeper, including some that also are found in my area like V. maura (to -15m)

Pretty sure Debbie didn’t know what she was getting into…
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-05-09 13:53:11 CDT (-0400)

I’ve never heard of these submarine associations. I’ve been told that it’s thought that lichens originated in the sea, so it shouldn’t come as a surprise that there’s untapped diversity in the symbiotic relationship there.

By: Richard Droker (wanderflechten)
2012-05-09 13:35:46 CDT (-0400)

Fascinating stuff!

Some interesting material which your exchange brings to mind includes Kohlmeyer and Kohlmeyer (1979) Submarine Lichens and Lichenlike Associations, in Marine Mycology: The Higher Fungi, pp. 70-78 which considers

“a wide array of symbiotic partnerships. At one end, there are loose associations of primitive lichens and at the other we have algal-fungal associations that border on parasitism: primitive lichens – “true” lichens – mycophycobioses – parasites"

“Mycophycobioses are obligate symbiotic associations between a systemic marine fungus and a marine micro alga in which the habit of the alga dominates” – inside-out lichens perhaps

Another quite interesting paper – http://www.amjbot.org/content/96/8/1409.full – Lücking et. al (2009) Do lichens domesticate photobionts like farmers domesticate crops? Evidence from a previously unrecognized lineage of filamentous cyanobacteria

Chances are good the same alga occurs in both species
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-05-09 02:13:41 CDT (-0400)

But honestly, I wonder if it’s ever been tested in the case of something like Candelariella. There is no question that the fungal half of the lichen consortium is far more diverse than the algal half. But the role the alga plays in shaping the thallus is poorly known at best. The most obvious case proving that the alga can play a key role is seen in species which have both a green-algal form and a cyanobacterial form. Same fungus, but different photobiont: result is totally different thalli. See Dendriscocaulon, the cyanobacterial form of various species of Lobaria and Sticta. But algae are hard to study. In many if not all cases you need to culture them in isolation from the fungus in order for them to express their reproductive states. Fungi, on the other hand, are “easy” for the most part. All of lichen taxonomy is based solely on the fungal partner.

Does that just have to do
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2012-05-08 23:48:24 CDT (-0400)

with the same alga being paired with a different fungal partner?

if I had only known…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-05-08 18:15:14 CDT (-0400)

I woulda collected some for ya! :)

Need to count spores per ascus
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-05-08 15:31:02 CDT (-0400)

Candelariella vitellina has 16+ per ascus, C. rosulans has 8.

Created: 2012-05-08 12:09:33 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2012-05-08 15:29:21 CDT (-0400)
Viewed: 134 times, last viewed: 2018-01-26 13:50:23 CST (-0500)
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