Observation 98129: Podoscyphaceae sensu Reid
When: 2012-06-23
(35.3217° -84.169° 457m)
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Found on soil in mixed mesophytic forest, fruitbody 2-5 cm tall, coral-like, erect forking branches with fan/vase shaped tips, pale pinkish tan, flesh very tough, pliable.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

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wish I’d been.
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2015-03-28 23:18:39 PDT (-0700)

instead I feel stipitate stereoidally brain damaged. the implications here are that everything being called C. pannosa that’s any degree of red isn’t C. pannosa. That would appear to upset a lot of internet naming, guide books, and apparently some full on peer-reviewed literature as well. Reid died in 2006 and I can think of almost no one to recruit for some sense making here. There is one person., Elisandro Ricardo Drechsler-Santos, a co-author on the Brazil paper. I suppose Ryvarden isn’t a bad option either, considering he wrote the Corticiaceae of Northern Europe volumes, which include various Cotylidia spp. I’ll drop them both a line.

Amazing
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2015-03-28 22:26:32 PDT (-0700)

Thanks, Danny.
Glad I was wearing a helmet.

this group is a hot mess
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2015-03-28 20:53:10 PDT (-0700)

Reid explains/adds to some of the confusion in his comments on Podoscypha multizonata on pages 209 and 210 of his Monograph of the Stipitate Stereoid Fungi. Strap in:

“At this point it is necessary to consider briefly something of the taxonomy and nomenclature of the fungus Cotylidia pannosa (Sow. ex. Fr.) Reid in order to appreciate the taxonomic treatment of Podoscypha multizonata by certain authors. Taking the question of taxonomy first we find that there have been certain attempts to distinguish two taxa within the species which in this work is described under the name C. pannosa. These two taxa have been said to differ according to the presence or absence of conspicuous protruding cystidia in the hymenium. The epithets pannosa and sowerbeii have been applied to collections which supposedly lacked cystidia while the epithet pallida has been applied to those possessing cystidia. However, in this study it has been shown that all collections possess cystidia, and that there is but a single taxon involved (see p. 87). Turning to a consideration of the nomenclature we see that prior to his recognition of T. multizonata as a distinct species in 1865, Berkeley was evidently perplexed and confused by the apparent variability of the fungus which he at first called Thelephora pannosa. This confusion was probably in some way responsible for his introduction of the new, but superfluous, name T. sowerbeii to replace that of T. pannosa (for further details see p. 86). Quelet (1886) confused the issue when he misapplied the name T. pannosa to the fungus which Berekeley and Broome has described as T. multizonata. This unfortunate state of affairs was made even worse for he then combined both the epithets sowerbeii and pallida in varietal rank under T. pannosa. In other words the epithet is was designed to replace! Quelet (1888) later listed T. multizonata in synonymy under T. intybaeca — a member of the genus Thelephora sensu stricto which Quelet himself described as having aculeate spores! Lloyd (1913) at first regarded T. multizonata as a synonym of Stereum pallidum which he kept apart from S. sowerbeii (= pannosa). At the same time he stated that S. aculeatumis probably only the American expression of Stereum pallidum. While on comparison it appears more regular, thinner, with thin, eroded edges, yet it has same habits, fibrillose surface, color (darker, it seems), and is in the main the same plant”. These observations regarding S. aculeatum are quite inexplicable if one takes them to refer to Cotylidia pannosa sensu stricto [of which S. pallidum is a synonym and to which more of the various collections discussed by Lloyd under S. pallidum belong], but are more meaningful if one remembers that Lloyd included T. multizonata in his concept of S. pallidum. Massee (1890) accepted T. multizonata as a valid species but he erroneously cited Stereum carolinense Cooke & Rav. as a synonym. The latter fungus belongs in the gneus Sparassis Fr. and has generally been regarded as a synonym of S. spathulatus (Schw.) Fr. by American mycologists (see Reid 1962). However, even if allowances are made for Massee’s inclusion of St. caroliniense under S. multizonatum, this still does not explain Massee’s description of the spores of the latter species as being 8-9 × 4-5 µ which is far too large for either of the fungi involved."

There are somewhat contradictory, somewhat complimentary, somewhat reiteratory (?) remarks offered in the commentary of Cotylidia pannosa, whose pileus is described as being “pure white when fresh but rapidly assuming a dingy yellowish tint upon weathering,” which makes one wonder how it could be confused with P. aculeata or P. multizonata. Here’s why:

Despite whatever MushroomExpert has to say, the presence of pink tones on the pileus surface is not mentioned as a macro character for P. aculeata in this considerably newer publication:

http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/...

(the hint of that color in Kuo’s second image is questionable given how goofy the lighting appears to be, providing that’s even P. aculeata to being with), and Reid himself confesses to there being "no information available as of the colour of the living material of P. aculeata, so that it is as yet uncertain whether macroscopic appearance will be of any help in separating this species from P. multizonata. Reid remarks that Berkeley & Broome described the pileus of P. multizonata as “a beautiful fleshy-red,” their illustration of which Reid describes as “a rosy-buff colour ornamented with prominent darker red-brown zones.” Reid then references “a second water-colour… [which] shows it to have been pinkish-brown near the margin fading to brownish-buff over the remainder of the pileus, while a living plant seen by the author was the colour of Beaujolais wine.”

So C. pannosa is supposedly red enough to be confused with P. multizonata, which is “exceedingly closely related” to P. aculeata, but Reid gives no indication whatsoever of red in his description of fresh and dry material of C. pannosa. That lack of red is at odds with many contemporary concepts of C. pannosa (google image search Cotylidia pannosa), which is not at all to say that they are right and Reid is wrong, just that everything is, apparently, f*cked up.

Suffice it to say, we probably ought to be exercising a microscopic degree of caution in assigning any of the above three names, if not others.

My distillation of this rat’s nest:

P. aculeata

  • Reid says habitat is “on the ground” and is “only known from the Southern United States.”
  • fresh macrocharacters not known in 1965, but described as being at least the dry doppelganger of P. multizonata
  • not described as having any pinkish tones when fresh in the Brazilian material (Drechsler-Santos, Gilbertoni & Cavalcanti. 2007)
  • distinguished microscopically by the presence of abhymenial pileogloeocystidia, a trait unique to that species in the genus Podoscypha.

P. multizonata

  • Reid says habitat is “on the ground, probably growing from buried wood or roots of trees” and “known from Europe and Asia”
  • said to be all manner of reddish and pinkish (as above) when fresh and dry
  • has been misidentified as/nomenclaturally confused with Cotylidia pannosa and vice versa, despite Podoscypha being dimitic and Cotylidia being monomitic, and despite Reid calling C. pannosa white fading to dingy yellowish, not red.

C. pannosa

  • Reid says habitat is “on bare soil in the woods, especially under birch trees” and is “only known with certainty from Europe, but reported from North America.”
  • lacking red in fresh and dry material as per Reid’s 1965 description, yet still somehow confusable with Podoscypha multizonata, which is all “rosy-buff” and “Beaujolais” and junk.
Podoscypha aculeata
By: Christine Braaten (wintersbefore)
2013-03-30 14:51:10 PDT (-0700)
European name
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2012-06-24 09:11:31 PDT (-0700)

Yes, it’s European, and yes, it’s possible that it’s undescribed. I have no leads on Cotylidia identification texts…

The ones I’ve found that I called by this name were definitely pretty tough-pliable.

Cotylidia pannosa
By: Christine Braaten (wintersbefore)
2012-06-24 08:08:56 PDT (-0700)

Is a very tough pliable texture consistent with this species? Is this is a European name [?], possibilty this one is undescribed.
Not too many sequences in Genbank for this either, none under the name C. pannosa.

interesting
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2012-06-24 00:03:44 PDT (-0700)

northernmost record of the genus I’ve seen, if it’s truly Cotylidia.

EDIT 3/28/2015: 2015 Danny rescinds 2012 Danny’s surprise at a report of Cotylidia from north of the Neotropics. There are numberous European records.

Created: 2012-06-23 20:42:49 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2015-03-28 21:51:31 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 161 times, last viewed: 2016-11-28 19:31:26 PST (-0800)
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