Observation 98299: Amanita sect. Vaginatae sensu Zhu L. Yang
When: 2012-06-25
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Similar to old species #17, maybe the same. Much smaller than my collections of old #17, and the volval sac was niether buried as deep, nor as fragile. Different location from old #17, but still on my 4 acre property. Similar habitat to old #17, grassy area (mowed path) with young oak nearby.

Hoping to compare spores from old #17 and this collection.

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Hello David,
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-02 13:44:48 BRT (-0300)

This material has been accessioned into our herbarium.


Good images, Dave.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-06-27 00:48:14 BRT (-0300)

The last macro shot shows the limbus internus in cross-section on the left side of the stipe to which it is appressed. This gives the best sense of its height. I was thinking you might be seeing an early fruiting of “A. longicuneus” nom. prov., but I don’t think so—the l.i. is not long enough.

See http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita+longicuneus

Very best,


Went to check the spot on my property…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-06-26 20:41:50 BRT (-0300)

and I managed to kick over a fresh specimen before I noticed it. (Murphy’s Law of Morels apparently also applies to amanitas :-) Quite ironically, I think this has turned out to be a productive happenstance. In the ground alongside the knocked mushroom the volval sac was buried up to its rim. When I examined it more closely, I could see what I believe to be the limbus internus, apparently intact.

Photos show the inner sac with limbus internus. I posted the photo which shows the piece of dirt on the very bottom of the internal sac because it provides a bit of depth. But the other photo is nicer. Note the striations on the upper part of the inner sac. Limbus internus appears to be in the 5-6 mm range. Also, note how the volval sac has turned yellowish, and how there are deposits on the cap. The one photo shows a long pice of yellowish volval material that had adhered to the cap and broke away from the rest of the sac… either while growing or when I knocked it over. I have also posted a photo which shows the sectioned mushroom (not avery clean cut) to show the profile of the internal limbus positioned alongside the mushroom, for perspective.

Spores are from yesterday’s collection.

Photos represent collections made 6/25 and 6/26.

The limbus internus is..
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-06-26 10:36:56 BRT (-0300)

the part of the volva that (in the primordium) lies between the stipe and the lamellae. When the stipe has expanded, the limbus internus looks like a little volva inside the big volval sac. It is variable in length, thickness, and position on the inside surface of the volval sac. It can be very thin and wispy in some species and rather thick and robust in others. In can be very short or several mm high. It can be attached to the main limb of the volva at the point of the volva’s attachment to the stem or it can project from the inner wall of the volval sac several mm above the point at which the sac is attached to the stipe.

The limbus internus can be view by looking down into the volval sac or by making a careful longitudinal section of the entire fruiting body and looking at the volval sac in cross-section.

The above treats the limbus internus as it would be seen in sections Vaginatae and Caesareae in which it is a character worth recording. In other sections it takes a different form. For example, the rings of volval tissue around the top of the bulb and the lower stipe in the muscarioid species of sect. Amanita are remains of a limbus internus.

Very best,


By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-06-26 08:49:57 BRT (-0300)

just to be certain I’m looking at the correct trait, I interpret “limbus internus” as the vertical extent of the inner attachment of the stipe to the volval sac.

I’ve got the two good specimens at home drying. So this may alter the attachment. Looked at spores this morning, nothing unusual looking for sect. Vaginatae… fairly large and globose. I’ll post a photo later today.

BTW, is there some concoction I might use in place of Meltzer’s? A friend of mine got some Meltzer’s by getting a medical doctor to write a prescription. Maybe I should try this?

By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-06-25 22:41:43 BRT (-0300)

Could you please check to see what the limbus internus looks like inside the volval sac?


Created: 2012-06-25 21:29:08 BRT (-0300)
Last modified: 2012-06-25 21:29:10 BRT (-0300)
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