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i’ve seen this species probably in the north of sardinia under Quercus suber. probably the largest Amanita sect. vaginatae i’ve ever seen.
i can pass you some stuff from Contu if you want.
i agree with you on the determination since it is described as a very robust species and also color match.
here the image from Gillet
I suspect that it has been reported as ceciliae several times – might even have done it myself before I was aware that this one existed.
Ret, the question about comparing it with the original description should rather be aimed to Gro, because she determined a collection from Norway 1985, and called it lividopallescens. I assume that she had access to the description by Secretan. It’s a very good idea to present the original description here (or in your own Amanita-site) – even better translated. For most of us, these are hard to find.
I explained how I got the name in a mail to you (because other people were involved). It seems like it could have bounced, did you receive it?
Now, of all the articles and books you are mentioning, I only have access to Bon and Fungi of Switzerland (“Pilze der Schweiz”, actually).
Bon has a very short description that fits (well, at least it doesn’t speak against it..), and the picture looks good too.
Fungi of Switzerland has a more detailed description, and it’s strange that it doesn’t tell about the remarkably changing and fading cap colours. When they write “first whitish, later pale to darker ochre grey”, they must have meant the veil, not the cap colour, otherwise it doesn’t make sense. For the cap colour, it should have been the other way around. The picture shows the right colour on very young ones that still haven’t faded or gone more greyish (I’m comparing now with the “lividopallescens” I have seen).
So, in my opinion, these two may well have described the same species, but I can’t say I’m sure of it. There is always this problem with rare species, that descriptions are made from a limited amount of observations, often just one. Then they can’t cover all variations of size and colours.
…of Western N. America, protecta). Same robust fruit body, same warted cap, unusual within section vaginata. Very cool! Please post more photos of material in different stages Irene…this is a life-anita for me (and probably for most of us, eh?). You are saving me a FORTUNE in plane fares!
Thank you for giving the additional detail. For the yellowish “fulva,” could A. flavescens be an option (key)? This latter taxon was collected frequently in Norway and is plentiful in O (Oslo herbarium), where it was often labeled “A. crocea.”
Your description of A. lividopallescens is very interesting. I have never read that it’s color change was so drastic. Has anyone ever collected an apparent lividopallescens (using the original description of Secretan) in Switzerland and compared it in detail with material of the species you illustrated from Sweden? I think I have a collection from Norway, which might be the same as your lividopallescens. I thought it might be undescribed when I saw it in the field. I would never have thought of lividopallescens. [The key resulting from the Norway trip is published in “Fluesopper i Norge” (Tulloss & Gulden,Dec. 1999, Blekksoppen, pp. 3-12). In particular, see the key couplet 22 (second entry) on p. 11. This was the specimen I remember as being closest to your lividopallescens photo.]
What is your opinion of the concepts of lividopallescens as illustrated by M. Traverso in Il genere Amanita in Italia, by F. Massart in Guide pratique des champignons, M. Bon in The mushrooms and toadstools of Britain and North-western Europe, Breitenbach & Kraenzlin in Fungi of Switzerland, etc. Do you feel that these authors are all illustrating and describing the same fungus?
I have never been sure that I have actually seen the species that Secretan originally described. I should probably post a translation of Secretan’s description on the Amanita Studies web site.
Thanks Rod for the comments! This one differs a lot from Amanita fulva.
Of course I should have written more about it, but I can do it here:
This is a huge mushroom, competing with Amanita ceciliae in size, and could easily be mistaken for one, if it hadn’t been for the large and thick volva and different colours at a young stage. This one has golden, or rather bronze-coloured buttons and the same colour inside the volva. The caps are later fading to pale yellowish grey.
They also grow in the same habitats as ceciliae, with oak.
At this particular location I managed to find it twice, but since the old oak nearby died, I haven’t seen it anymore.
(Amanita fulva is very common here, particularly in wet mixed woods with spruce and birch. It is smaller, and with a consistent yellowish to reddish brown cap colour)
How does this collection differ from Amanita fulva? It seems rather similar to a form taken by specimens of that species when weather conditions cause fragments of the volva to be left on the pileus. I have seen very robust material of A. fulva growing in wet Sphagnum in Scotland. Similarly large specimens from Bavaria deposited in the National Herbarium in Leiden also have been revised by me. Scots specimens are on left (here).
The literature regarding A. lividopallescens includes contradictory descriptions as noted in some detail by A. Fraiture (1993. Les amanitopsis d’Europe (genre Amanita, Agaricales, Fungi). Synthèse critique de la littérature. Opera Bot. Belg. 5: 1-130.).