Observation 151396: Pholiotina Fayod

When: 2013-11-07

Collection location: Braga, Portugal [Click for map]

Who: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)

No specimen available



Proposed Names

44% (2)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight
3% (2)
Recognized by sight
27% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-11-18 13:36:20 CST (-0500)

I agree that microscopy is needed for a 100% ID. P. rugosa and a couple of others are possible too, but I chose to suggest arrhenii anyway because that’s what I think it looks like :-)

Perhaps I…
By: Byrain
2013-11-18 11:42:21 CST (-0500)

…misread what you said, my apologies. I don’t think you have something in sect. Intermedia, FAN6 only lists P. brunnea (=Conocybe intermedia var. brunnea) in it which doesn’t have an annulus instead with the veil adhering to the pileus margin and then says this, “Pholiotina intermedia (A.H. Smith) Sing. from North America may be different in paler, ochraceous lamellae and the veil often leaving an annulus on the stipe. According to Watling (in Persoonia 6: 318. 1971) it is closely related to or possibly identical with Ph. brunnea.”

Macro is enough to tell you which of their Pholiotina keys you should use.

“1. Veil present, leaving a membranaceous annulus on stipe or flocks adhering to the margin of pileus, at least in young basidiocarps
2. Veil leaving a membranaceous annulus on stipe……………………………………..KEY ONE
2. Veil leaving flocks adhering to the margin of pileus……………………………………..KEY TWO

And for key one this is said, “Veil leaving a membranaceous annulus on stipe. The annulus is loosely attached to the stipe and radially striate-sulcate on upper side. Cheilocystidia subcylindrical, lageniform or utriform (sect. Pholiotina)”

The species included in key one are Pholiotina teneroides, P. vexans, P. utricystidiata, P. aporos, P. rugosa, P. arrhenii. and P. hadrocystis. Unfortunately all of them are separated in the key entirely with micro features, time of year may (But not necessarily) be enough to rule out P. aporos though.

By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-11-18 11:19:17 CST (-0500)

I understood perfectly, I didn’t objected your opinion, did I? I just asked for your comments about the excert of the study :)

By: Byrain
2013-11-18 10:28:48 CST (-0500)

Why exactly P. arrhenii and not P. hadrocystis, P. rugosa or one of the other ringed species? I don’t think I’m seeing what you are seeing. :)

I don’t think you understand.
By: Byrain
2013-11-18 10:09:10 CST (-0500)

C. blatteria is a not a useful name, it has been used to refer to several ringed Pholiotina and even ringless Pholiotina species. Mycobank is not always up to date. I sent you my Pholiotina keys, they will prove pretty useless without micro though.

This is growing
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-11-18 07:34:25 CST (-0500)

on wood (a small piece of wood), I think that’s why I found blattaria ref…. any other that grows on wood?

Ok, thanks. pls take a look at this
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-11-18 06:49:14 CST (-0500)


“Characters: Basidiocarp mycenoid, small to medium. Pileus hygrophanous, slightly glutinous, dry micaceous to pruinose, smooth. Veil present as fringes at pileus margin or as distinct ring striate on the upper side. Spores smooth, often slightly phaseoliform, in one species broadly ellipsoidical, with germ-pore. Cheilocystidia distinctly capitate with thin neck, often almost lecythiform. Caulo- and pileocystidia similar. Forests, on soil or litter.

Comments: This is the only section of the genus Pholiotina, in which species with distinct, on the upper side striate ring, and such with only velar fringes at the pileus margin are united, because more value is attached to the characters of cheilocystidia than to the veil conditions (WATLING 1971)."

in which sector (section Intermediae) the single representant is P. intermedia.

About name, as names are a bit confusing to me and after looking for Pholiotinas I found blattaria references (don’t remember where I found it) and tried to propose the name, as it doesn’t exist here, I looked for it in Mycobank, where I found that Conocybe blattaria is still the current name (even it is about to change).

I didn’t find this study till today, but seems interesting, what do you think about?

Conocybe blattaria
By: Byrain
2013-11-17 21:46:16 CST (-0500)

I looked in fan6, they said this:

“The type species of Pholiotina, Ph. blattaria, is based on Agaricus blattarius Fr. :Fr. This name cannot be interpreted
with certainty and has been used for almost any annulate species of Pholiotina. Therefore, this name has been rejected
as nomen dubium.”

You should call this Pholiotina or maybe Pholiotina sect. Pholiotina since it has a ring, I’m not sure this is identifiable to species without micro…

Created: 2013-11-07 12:29:26 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2013-11-18 10:15:48 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 82 times, last viewed: 2018-12-15 00:26:26 CST (-0500)
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