Observation 169096: Amanita sect. Amanita

Species Lists


Proposed Names

47% (2)
Recognized by sight: The cap veil is VERY slimy, there is also a small felty ring, and a bulb with small scales on it.
5% (4)
Used references: Suggested by Dave Wasilewski
62% (3)
Recognized by sight

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

= Observer’s choice
= Current consensus


Add Comment
no argument from me on insufficient species descriptions/publications.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2019-02-09 10:38:37 CST (-0600)

but we have to start SOMEWHERE.

what hard data did Rod come up with on his examination of this sample?

arguing a photo alone is not nearly deep enough.

we are all blind wo(men) with an elephant.

By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2019-02-08 19:32:02 CST (-0600)

My vote is based on the info on RET’s website. For example, the ring is well-defined, whereas the type of russuloides lacked it. The species concept of A. russuloides is still not resolved at this time, and the only collection that can be confidently called that is the holotype. Might as well propose “sp-S01”, as it’s known from Missouri, or just “russuloides group” to cover a wide range of taxa fitting the species concept of Peck’s type.

Length of striations
By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2019-02-08 17:44:56 CST (-0600)

Given how convex the cap is and the angle of the camera, I estimate the striation to be not longer than 1/3 of radius.

and it IS tuberculate striate.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2019-02-08 17:17:09 CST (-0600)
the material went to Rod 5 years ago.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2019-02-08 17:12:28 CST (-0600)

surely we have some sort of answer by now?

Yup, in part.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2019-02-08 10:32:52 CST (-0600)

But way to take this to the worst possible scenario, Sam!

Apparently while we were all talking about the water solubility of ibotenic acid and muscimol, chemists were extracting amatoxins with only water for years. They tended to macerate the mushrooms first, but apparently even that is not necessary, as was demonstrated to me by Candace Bever, USDA scientist.

But before you prepare that fry pan and lead others on a path to extreme cuisine doom, be aware that not ALL of the many different subtypes of amatoxins are removed by water. Just enough are removed to register as positive on a chemical analysis or to purify for other uses in science and medicine. Not to be made safe for eating.

Thank goodness for small favors.

By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2019-02-08 10:23:22 CST (-0600)

Wait; what? Then, wouldn’t amatoxic mushrooms be rendered harmless via the boiling & water discarding method people do with Russellas in certain parts of the world?

Sam Schaperow

just to add to this toxicity discussion …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2019-02-07 10:47:40 CST (-0600)

it turns out that amatoxins are HIGHLY water soluble! A scientist with the USDA demonstated this to me the other day at my home, while showing me her brand new urine test strips that detect nanograms of amatoxin/ml. This means that placing a piece of phalloides in your mouth for 5 minutes could easily allow the mucosa to absorb toxins. It doesn’t take much to produce some very unpleasant effects.

It is a foolish practice that could cause harm. I do not advise it.

Thanks Patrick,
By: groundhog
2014-09-16 11:16:22 CDT (-0500)

We have recieved this material and accessioned it to Rod’s Herbarium.

I agree, David.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-07-06 21:41:41 CDT (-0500)

The warty bulb, in particular, is something that is unusual for sect. Amanita…as far as I can remember.


Just before encountering this post…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-07-06 20:34:41 CDT (-0500)

I happened to stop by the “Wild Mushrooms” observation that Patrick mentioned. Upon viewing this other Amanita again, I began to doubt my initial praecox proposal. The ring quite prominent, and shaped somewhat like the “inverted funnel” associated with velatipes. Also, re-reading the WM post, the habitat mentions oak, holly, but not hemlock or any other conifer.

The shaggy stipe and warty basal bulb on this one (MO 169069) seem interesting.

I’ll reconsider, I think
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2014-07-06 18:46:49 CDT (-0500)

No tasting unknown Amanita for me. I also recently read about Debbie Viess getting a reaction from Amanita phalloides, by simply squeezing the juice out (from the NAMA Yahoo group):

Acute Toxicity of Phalloidins: Amatoxin’s Silent Partner
Mon Jun 9, 2014 8:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:
“debbie viess” amanitarita
Most of us know about amatoxins and deadly amanita poisonings: a terrible way to die and not much fun even if you survive, but you have to actually EAT phalloides to be poisoned by amatoxins.

What most people don’t know is that the deadly amanitas also contain an even more potent and deadly toxin: phalloidin. But this terrible toxin is made harmless as soon as it hits our gut: the acid and perhaps agitation in our bellies converts the phalloidin molecule to its harmless isomer: flipping it over to its mirror image.

This switch to a harmless molecule doesn’t happen if you somehow absorb it through your skin rather than ingest it.

I had a close encounter with phalloidins several years ago, while doing a Meixner test on phalloides spores, a fairly simple lab method of determining the presence of amatoxin. Although I was super cautious around the concentrated Hydrochloric Acid that is also required of a Meixner test, I was a bit more casual with my old, familiar, can’t-hurt-ya-if-ya-don’t-eat-it phalloides, and actually squeezed the juice out of my water-logged specimen bare-handed, thereby bathing my hands briefly in phalloides juice.

Long before an hour had passed, I felt really awful. Not the typical delayed reaction vomit-y and cholera-like diarrhea awful (after all, my gut wasn’t involved in this poisoning), but terrible flu awful, aching all over, weak, etc. and took to my bed for the rest of the day and into that evening.

I never had a fever, and it wasn’t the flu.

I don’t believe that I had any breaks in my skin, either, but who knows? I was just hoping that I wasn’t about to die an ironic death. I could just see the headlines: “Amanita Expert Dies of Amanita Poisoning!!!”

How embarrassing would that be?! Well, maybe not so much to me, if I was dead.

I recovered without any obvious permanent damage, but I have no desire to repeat the experiment, nor would I encourage others to do so. It was painful!
Next time, I’ll be using gloves.

The ability of phalloidins to pass through the skin barrier is known, and is warned about in this online, industrial toxins site from Canada:


BTW, I have handled plenty of phalloides in a more fleeting manner (but without bathing my hands in its juice), and have never had any sort of adverse effect.

However, since the poisoning, I have become super sensitive to the smell of drying phalloides. I have sent a number of specimens from CA to the Pringle lab at Harvard, so they do sometimes get onto my drier. Smelling phalloides now makes my gorge rise, which I attribute to my own body wisdom telling me to “run for the hills!”

Or at least take this deadly mushroom a bit more seriously.

Word to the wise,

Debbie Viess

Please be cautious.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-07-06 18:45:34 CDT (-0500)

Please be excessively cautious…everyone.


ty for asking, Herbert
By: Sam.Schaperow (Sam.Schaperow)
2014-07-06 18:32:11 CDT (-0500)

That particular vote was an accident. I’ve since corrected it.

Don’t think I’ll get much out of it now
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2014-07-06 17:43:15 CDT (-0500)

It is rather small & I’ve already dried it. I may try tasting a very few samples in the future, as long as they’re known to me, and not poisonous or smelling like bad meat.

taste & spit?
By: Sam.Schaperow (Sam.Schaperow)
2014-07-06 17:12:56 CDT (-0500)

I’m interested in its taste characteristics. I’m finding more and more that some mushrooms have subtle but clear characteristics taht can be used as helpful ID aids (as much as any visual characteristic alone). If you taste it, leave in mouth .5 minutes or so to get a good experience of it, then spit, what are the various flavors you notice?

Sam Schaperow, M.S.
PsychologyCT.com of New London County & Waterford, CT

Then I’m a little concerned about it being praecox.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-07-06 12:48:01 CDT (-0500)

We’ll take a look when it comes in to us.

Very best,


Nothing like that around
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2014-07-06 12:28:31 CDT (-0500)

The area was under tall grass with oaks around, white pines a bit further down the draw. It’s drying right now & I’ll send it to you with some others from this weekend.

Hello, Patrick.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-07-06 11:32:41 CDT (-0500)

If its praecox, then it should have Canadian Hemlock or Balsam Fir nearby. Amanita praecox is yellowish. It has a thinnish limbate volva, and its partial veil disappears rather quickly.

Very best,


An interesting coincidence
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2014-07-06 10:20:25 CDT (-0500)

I just checked on another site, Wildmushroomhunting.org. Another person had posted photos that looked positively identical with mine — same shiny cap, small ring, and slightly scaly bulb. Dave Wasilewski suggested the ID of Amanita praecox. I checked it in your Amanitaceae.org, and barring any microscopic or other differences, that appears to be it.


That’s curious, Patrick.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-07-05 21:06:26 CDT (-0500)

I don’t recognize this very pretty little creature.

I’d suggest that it belongs in sect. Amanita.

Very interesting mushroom from my viewpoint.

Very best,


Created: 2014-07-05 17:52:58 CDT (-0500)
Last modified: 2019-02-09 10:38:38 CST (-0600)
Viewed: 346 times, last viewed: 2019-09-12 12:35:33 CDT (-0500)
Show Log