When: 2009-02-10

Collection location: Fresno, California, USA [Click for map]

Who: johnnyblaze2316 (johnnyblaze2316)

Specimen available

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Yes, it would, Alan.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2019-02-20 12:44:24 PST (-0800)

Let me see what can be done about that.


It would be interesting to see sequence data
By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
2019-02-20 10:00:44 PST (-0800)

from this collection.

very good
By: johnnyblaze2316 (johnnyblaze2316)
2009-03-20 12:12:38 PDT (-0700)

im glad they arrived and in good condition, please keep me updated on what is learned, one of those was a pin when collected but completely opened during drying……..!

thank you Johnny, amanitas received in good condition…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2009-03-20 12:02:07 PDT (-0700)

nice job on the packaging! I will send on two of the three fruit bodies to Rod. We are all about sharing and caring, and besides, He the Man!

im sure
By: johnnyblaze2316 (johnnyblaze2316)
2009-02-26 10:20:06 PST (-0800)

that will not be a problem, you can get w debbie and see if she will share, or you can email me directly (johnnyblaze2316@yahoo.com) and i will collect some for you next time i go up there. there were literally, at least 5 under every oak growing w numerous russula, enteloma, helvella, lactarius and laccaria….seriously…..every oak had the amanitas, plus the 6 other sp. with it. every oak. you can see the images here: http://www.shroomery.org/...
(pages 6-on thru)

always curious…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-02-26 09:52:38 PST (-0800)

I’d love more pictures. Could I ask you and Deb to spare some material for me to review? Finding the thickened cells walls in the volva (if they are there) is not an exhausting task…


would anyone
By: johnnyblaze2316 (johnnyblaze2316)
2009-02-26 09:41:16 PST (-0800)

like more pictures, and debbie, i have some samples for you that are almost dry…….

strangulated group
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-02-26 07:53:45 PST (-0800)

Hello, Dave.

Yes, another possible way of describing this specimen would be “Amanita ceciliae group.” I didn’t introduce that name because I think there may be a code [and maybe, now, a provisional name] already assigned to the present mushroom [i.e., that critter with thick-walled cells that I found during my studies on paratypes of the amanitas of Thiers and Ammirati (published in 1993)].

By the way “A. strangulata” is an unknown white species. Fries changed the meaning of his own name, which led to “A. strangulata” appearing in many books as a name for “A. cecilieae.” Amanita strangulata should be considered a nomen dubium and left to gather dust.

Very best,


By: Dave W (Dave W)
2009-02-26 05:02:38 PST (-0800)

How about A. ceciliae = A. inautata = A. strangulata? Here in PA I find similar grayish grisette-like Amanitas with the friable, clingy volvas and gray volval patches on the caps. Without really going beyond macroscopic details, I have generally believed them to be in the “Strangulated” group.

we need a good catch-all designation for unnamed grisettes…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2009-02-25 20:10:42 PST (-0800)

cause we sure have a lot of them here in California! Naming grisettes is the bane of my amanita-loving existance!

Using “vaginata group” (which at least gives one the section) for these gray to brown capped, exannulate, mostly membranous and somewhat saccate volvaed amanitas seems about as good as we have for now.

Other suggestions, Rod? I agree that protecta is not what we have here, altho Johnny’s grisette does share some of the gestalt of a robust protecta.

I don’t think it is protecta…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-02-25 18:37:18 PST (-0800)

The volval is too flimsy, is turning gray, and lacks common ochraceous staining. In protecta, the volva often looks a great deal like the “rolled sock” of the pantherina-group. The stipe in the photograph does not have the black or gray fibrils that cover much of the stipe surface in protecta. The volva is more like the volva of A. submembranacea. Darvin, I’d suggest checking the inflated cells of the volva for color and for the thickness of the cell walls. A notably thickened cell-wall may indicate that this is one of the undescribed species that showed up when I was doing type studies of Thiers’ Amanita species. I think the data are in the 1993 paper I wrote on type studies in sect. Vaginatae. Good luck.

Very best,