When: 2015-12-12

Collection location: Briones, Contra Costa Co., California, USA [Click for map]

Who: banders (banders)

No specimen available

Shady slope under coast live oak, bay.



Proposed Names

-13% (2)
Recognized by sight
46% (3)
Recognized by sight: I don’t see why we are trying to apply European names to our west coast Psathyrella when we have a nice Peck name from Pasadena.

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= Observer’s choice
= Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Byrain
2015-12-15 11:08:10 CST (-0500)

This observation looks it has a fairly glabrous pileus with only the veil at the margin. I still think this is a Coprinopsis.

The problem still remains is that Smith did not know how to tell them apart and we’re not much better off. Two of his North American taxa in that group are now considered to be Coprinopsis marcescibilis (Smith differentiated with spore shape which is variable in this group…), even if P. longipes and P. thomii could be different.

Maybe P. longipes is more like obs 88247? (I haven’t changed that name before because I didn’t know what to do with it)

Edit: I suggest anything that looks remotely like P. longipes or similar looking Coprinopsis species should be collected, scoped and sequenced. Its the only way to solve this. Until then I will go with Coprinopsis for a glabrous pileus and P. longipes for specimens with a fibrillose pileus. Not perfect, but seems to be the best we have…

Reply from Andreas
By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
2015-12-15 03:05:59 CST (-0500)

I can, unfortunately, not say much, because I do not know longipes. But Peck wrote “Pileus … fibrillose becoming glabrous”. So there is a veil on the cap, not only at the margin (like marcescibilis). I suspect both are not the same species.
All the best,

By: Byrain
2015-12-14 12:54:31 CST (-0500)

Andreas Melzer, maybe I am misunderstanding the level of evidence he has (Or not?), he responds to e-mails. I just know the http://www.vielepilze.de Psathyrella site is a bit ahead of any other sources and that the European mycologists are actively working on Psathyreallaceae including DNA sequences.

All I am trying to argue is that given the info from the European mycologists and Smith’s already extremely shaky key for these our concept of Psathyrella longipes is a lot weaker than it is for Coprinopsis marcescibilis and that Smith’s descriptions or keys do not show how they differentiate or even how to do so from other taxa he thought were different.

Where is the DNA evidence that these are the same?
By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
2015-12-14 12:43:58 CST (-0500)

I couldn’t find any west coast sequences of Coprinopsis marcescibilis or Psathyrella longipes in GenBank or UNITe except for possibly http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/FJ899617.1 – however no location is given for this sequence, and if it is Psathyrella longipes, it does not support the idea that this taxon is present both in Europe and the USA.

MycoBank and Index Fungorum both treat Psathyrella longipes as a valid species.

By: Byrain
2015-12-14 11:55:25 CST (-0500)

We are applying European names because the DNA evidence suggests it occurs in North America too.

Also, what the hell is P. longipes and how does it differ from P. fragilissima and P. elwhaensis which are both now synonymous with Coprinospsis marcescibilis? When I talked to Andreas Melzer it seemed to be a matter that no one has considered where P. longipes stands after the recent new understanding of these Coprinopsis sp. Of course mycologists in Western North America don’t seem to care enough to even read Smith’s broken key for them.


Duh… Right. Thanks.
By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2015-12-13 13:36:25 CST (-0500)
With an outer veil
By: Byrain
2015-12-12 22:11:24 CST (-0500)

This is not Parasola.

Created: 2015-12-12 17:44:42 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2019-12-13 00:32:48 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 163 times, last viewed: 2020-08-23 15:39:16 CDT (-0400)
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