Observation 279507: Amanita stirps Sororcula

When: 2017-06-21

Collection location: Sharon, Connecticut, USA [Click for map]

Who: cmy610

No specimen available

Notes:
Growing on the ground in a mixed forest.

Images

Proposed Names

77% (2)
Recognized by sight

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= Observer’s choice
= Current consensus

Comments

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Thanks again
By: cmy610
2017-06-26 13:55:02 ADT (-0300)

Excellent, thank you.

Yes, “stirps” is Latin for “group.” —>> EDITED
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-06-26 13:00:44 ADT (-0300)

I think you got my gist…quite well.

Just as with other organisms, if the range of species is known, you can eliminate possibilities. For example, sororcula is known from Central America and the Colombian Andes (at the moment).

Based on the (always) limited data, your material is more likely to be one of the taxa known from the northeastern U.S. and southeastern Canada. The two most commonly collected taxa from that region are A. rhacopus and A. texasorora (the latter is the most commonly collected in CT by a longshot). but there are others as well. (Notice all the names are provisional.) The following are also known from CT: sp-N61, sp-58, and cremeosorora (possibly just a pallid variant of another species).

Connecticut is a wondrous state for mushrooms in section Vaginatae. Almost all of my collections of Amanita penetratrix have come from CT.

Very best,

Rod

Just to clarify…
By: cmy610
2017-06-26 10:36:03 ADT (-0300)

Thanks so much for the additional information. I admit I am very new to mycology and know very little about mushroom taxonomy. So, please forgive my ignorance, but I just wanted to clarify from the ID given and the information you provided that this mushroom could be A. sororcula, A. rhacopus, or A. texasorora…or, another related Amanita species. But, the specific species can’t be identified without DNA analysis. So, it is okay to categorize it as Amanita sororcula or Amanita rhacopus-texasorora group since a specific ID can’t be obtained without more information. Is that correct? One more quick question about this ID – is “stirps” synonymous for “type” or “group”? I googled it, but couldn’t find a definition. Thanks again for your help.

That question could fail to be answered by a large essay.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-06-23 17:47:10 ADT (-0300)

I think that any choice you make will be understood on MO. I think it is a very good project (for me, for example) to go back over what led me to think that amanitas of section Vaginatae that have weak volval tissue that turns color with exporsure might be organized in the way they presently are on the WAO website. It should probably be investigate with a view to doing a better job than I did several years back. That should be taken seriously and requires a thorough job. This moment is not the moment when I can do that.

So you should decide what you would like to do that allows you to communicate your meaning to other people.

Perhaps, you’d like to convey that the mushroom illustrated here is one of the group of eastern North American species with graying universal veil that belong in the Vaginatae. Some people take a name or two and say something like “rhacopus-texasorora group from eastern North America.” You might provide your own definition for that phrase by listing some of the taxa that you consider sufficiently alike to be considered in the group.

The real goal is for us to communicate our intensions to each other. Provisional or published names serve that purpose and we can select the precision we intend by grouping species names in a way that conveys a sense of the degree of certainty we feel. If we say the “rhacopus-texasorora group” we could mean “stirps Sorocula limited to eastern North America and not including taxa with the cap predominantly gray”. As long as we are clear about what we mean, then we can move forward with the conversation.

I hope this is somewhat useful.

Very best,

Rod

Thanks
By: cmy610
2017-06-23 13:52:52 ADT (-0300)

Thanks for the info Rod. Do you think I should still consider this as Amanita sororcula or should it be changed to Amanita sp, A. rhacopus, or A. texasorora? Thanks for your help.

I would suggest that (within the names stirps) this is close to…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-06-22 15:22:25 ADT (-0300)

rhacopus, texasorora, or sp-V03. The cap colors do seem to vary in this group. As was mentioned recentlu on MO. The best bet for ID in this group is DNA-sequencing…at least at the moment.

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20rhacopus

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20texasorora

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20sp-V03

We know that texasorora is the most frequently sent to us from CT. However, the following additional taxa from the group have also been sent to us from CT at least once:

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20sp-N61

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20sp-58

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita%20cremeosorora

Very best,

Rod

Created: 2017-06-22 10:32:13 ADT (-0300)
Last modified: 2017-06-26 14:00:56 ADT (-0300)
Viewed: 122 times, last viewed: 2019-10-17 14:15:26 ADT (-0300)
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