Notes:
Single fruiting body in leaf litter at the base of a Quercus alba near Carya laciniosa, Acer saccharum and Ulmus sp. Debris adhering to cap and stem. Remnants of green coloration present on cap and upper stem. Bright orange-yellow gills. Cap 2.3 cm wide. Stem 3.1 cm long and 0.2 cm wide. Odor indistinct.

Species Lists

Images

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Proposed Names

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Comments

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Heelsplitter; thanks for the interesting comments.
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-02 22:32:47 CDT (-0400)

One of the advantages of MO is the map showing locations of observations. Humidicutis marginata var. olivacea has the group in the PNW and then a big gap to those of the east coast. I will will be surprised if the DNA matches between these two populations. They certainly do NOT look alike. “Type” is from Washington State – which brings up the thought that if the two populations are different the PNW will be the olivacea I suppose.

That the two populations of H. marginata var olivacea might be able to breed together – despite that distance that will assure they do not – is maybe not enough to be considered the same species (even divided by var.) …….Two recent bird samples to make my point; the old Blue Grouse has been split into two species because – primarily I believe – because of location. So habitat. Another more interesting example is that of the Barred Owl and the Northern Spotted Owl which are two species. One on the east coast in more open forest, the other on the west coast in old growth. HOWEVER, the destruction of the old growth forest on the west coast made this idea habitat for the Barred Owl and they just moved in. The owls are different but can breed with viable offspring and now that the Barred Owl is moving back in that is exactly what they are doing. At some point will the two birds become one again? I suspect that will be the case although it will be a genetically messy process.

Humidicutis and Porpolomopsis
By: Django Grootmyers (heelsplitter)
2017-07-02 12:56:17 CDT (-0400)

could be reunited if it turns out that some of the un-sequenced Humidicutis species form a paraphyletic grade leading to Porpolomopsis, which isn’t too implausible in my opinion. There’s no good evidence for this yet though.

DNA could flow between eastern and western H. marginata populations if they belonged to a species that could survive boreal conditions. Suillus americanus is a good example of one of these species in North America. Even if this weren’t the case, it could be that despite a long period of geographic isolation these populations could still mate. Choriactis geaster is a good example of this. This is assuming that there aren’t multiple species hiding out in H. marginata too.

The ecological differences you mention are between some of the species in these genera that occur in your area and may not be significant in delimiting the boundaries of these genera. Porpolomopsis cf. calyptriformis is also found in eastern North America, where it can be found fruiting at the same time as H. marginata varieties. The ecological roles that many wax caps play are still pretty mysterious and it may be that a lot of them are endophytic and/or biotrophic.

Heelsplitter – Porpolomopsis
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-02 11:17:05 CDT (-0400)

For sure the vagaries of science depends on the mood of the day as to establishment of what creates a genus or species level. Have you heard arguments for bringing Porpolomopsis and Humidicutis back together again?

How does the isolated Humidicutis of the PNW fit into the H. marginata group? The Humidicutis in the PNW looks so different than what is seen on the east coast – and how would genetic material ever flow back to the PNW? DNA of Humidicutis from Washington State is coming. The Porpolomopsis group (here in North America) is found in California – while Humidicutis is maybe not. Mushrooms of the Redwood Coast talks of P. calyptriformis as being found in dead of winter – while Humidicutis here loves 100 degree weather. Whatever the similarities, the ecological differences between the two are great. Interesting group for sure!

Thanks heelsplitter
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-01 17:51:08 CDT (-0400)

The bets are down. Good that it is being sequenced. I look forward to the results and hope I do not miss them when you post them.

This is being DNA sequenced by Stephen Russell
By: Django Grootmyers (heelsplitter)
2017-07-01 16:16:21 CDT (-0400)

so we should at least he able to resolve what genus this is in. I’m willing to concede that this could be a Humidicutis but it was unusually viscid compared to the H. marginata varieties I’ve found. I do find more normal G. psittacinus-like species in the Spring and Summer in Ohio. Our winters here are too cold for most wax caps except for some hardy Hygrophorus species (haven’t found any of those yet though) and at least some Cuphophyllus species. I found Cuphophyllus pratensis during a thaw in December in east-central Indiana once (observation 250369).

Gliophorus, Humidicutis and Porpolomopsis are all pretty closely related and it seems that Humidicutis in the current sense is restricted to species with bright gills like these but it could be that Humidicutis and Porpolomopsis get merged again.

Thanks Mycowalt – DNA discussion
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-01 13:33:38 CDT (-0400)

I always appreciate and respect your well thought out points of view.

The Gliophorus psittacinus/perplexus group have DNA that is all over the place. One instance – I think – where DNA is adding some confusion, at least for the time being, to this group. I have had DNA run on some G. perplexus and psittacinus from my area in Washington State and they do not match – strictly speaking – to anything in Genbank. I see a perplexus looking Gliophorus that is sometimes huge (relatively speaking) and so how does it fit in?

BUT, there is hope in the horizon as Bryn Dentsinger has just taken on the west group Gliophorus and his credentials are very impressive. I have just sent him addition samples to be looked at so am excited that something will surface to unravel the mysteries of this group. Humidicutis is very close I think to the Gliophorus group so who knows where this all ends up? The key for me though remains the one consistent characteristic of Humidicutis – gill color……….Maybe we should just call them all Parrots.

Gliophorus perplexus
By: walt sturgeon (Mycowalt)
2017-07-01 13:07:31 CDT (-0400)

is glutinous, becoming viscid and eventually sticky. These photos show debris on the cap and stem indicating it was viscid. In Ohio G. perplexus is a common summer mushroom.

Thanks Heelsplitter
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-01 11:44:33 CDT (-0400)

Humidicutis – at least in my area can be very green. Check out observation 257458. Sure looks like what this observation you just posted is. Smile

I ran through observation of G. psittacinus on MO again and the one general consistency is that they are viscid. Same with G. perplexus which to my thinking is even more slimy than psittacinus.

One more reason for thinking Humidicutis marginata var. concolor is timing. If you look through concolor they are a summer mushroom whereas usually psittacinus is a winter guy.

The cap and stem had adhering debris
By: Django Grootmyers (heelsplitter)
2017-07-01 10:58:57 CDT (-0400)

This was a bit dry when I found it but the cap and stem were likely viscid at one point. The green coloration also points to something in the Gliophorus psittacinus group. While the gills are unusually bright, Michael Kuo mentions that G. psittacinus can sometimes have orange-yellow gills when mature.

Heelsplitter – interesting observation
By: Steve (Lokness)
2017-07-01 10:46:28 CDT (-0400)

My thinking for a vote for Humidicutis here is two fold;
G. psittacinus is very very slimy and there looks to be no hint of your observation being viscid. Humidicutis is not slimy. The second reason I suggested Humidicutis is your comment on gill color. While Humidicutis can be very variable as to cap color – gill color are consistently a beautiful orange/yellow. Your comment suggest to me the gill color caught your eye.

Why do you think Humidicutis is wrong?

Created: 2017-06-30 11:05:41 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2017-07-01 17:48:22 CDT (-0400)
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