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Great discussion
By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2017-11-24 13:48:36 CST (-0500)

In the future, try to keep discussion of the names/species on the name pages (Sarcomyxa serotina/Panellus serotinus) so that content isn’t spread around a billion observations.

Last Comment
By: Alden Dirks (aldendirks)
2017-11-24 13:46:10 CST (-0500)

Sometimes it’s hard to let go of a name that is so attached in my mind to the mushroom that I’m finding in the woods… and attempt eating.

Does anyone know whether Sarcomyxa edulis is found in NA, or is that just found in Asia (the true Mukitake)?

Dai et al. (2003) “Changbai wood-rotting fungi 14. A new pleurotoid species Panellus edulis” Annales Botanici Fennici, 40(2)

Thank you as well.
By: Chris Neefus (Chris Neefus)
2017-11-24 13:45:30 CST (-0500)

Sounds like a Panellus s.l. could be a good project for a grad student.

OK
By: Alden Dirks (aldendirks)
2017-11-24 13:30:53 CST (-0500)

I guess my concerns about these papers are separate from the taxonomic assignment. They don’t tell us very well where Panellus serotinus (uh oh, Sarcomyxa serotina) belongs, given the very low bootstrap support of both of the trees. But, Panellus is clearly polyphyletic, so if we treat the clade containing Panellus serotinus and P. edulis very narrowly as a genus, then, well, I guess Sarcomyxa it is.

Thanks for the good discussion!

I’m convinced
By: Chris Neefus (Chris Neefus)
2017-11-24 13:04:21 CST (-0500)

The paper that M. Kuo referenced
Jin JK, Hughes KW, Petersen RH (2001) Phylogenetic relationships of Panellus( agaricales) and related species based on morphology and ribosomal large subunit DNA sequences. Mycotaxon 79: 7-21
provides a good synopsis of the taxonomic history of the genus. In addition to LSU, they looked at a set of morphological characteristics. The trees based on LSU and on morphology both segregated Panellus stipticus (the type species of Panellus) from Sarcomyxa serotina (the type species for Sarcomyxa). The authors’ formal recommendation was that P. serotinus “requires separate generic assignment” and that Sarcomyxa serotina “would be the correct name”.

Not convincing
By: Alden Dirks (aldendirks)
2017-11-24 12:14:58 CST (-0500)

Unfortunately, I can’t read Japanese, but just from the tree, I’m definitely not convinced that Panellus serotinus should belong to Sarcomyxa serotina. They only looked at 4 species (and 2 more as an outgroup), which completely ignores the many other organisms in this group; the conclusions they make about 2 clades comprising 4 species has ramifications to the naming of many many other species, and might be different if those species were included. Furthermore, they only looked at a partial LSU sequence…

Michael Kuo also recognizes this fungus as Panellus serotinus. However, he does mention that this group is a hot mess that needs work and cites a 2001 study: http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/.... This study does provide a fuller look, comparing 14 species. However, the authors again only obtained partial LSU sequences and most clades have very little bootstrap support.

My conclusion is that this group needs a lot of work, but there is no evidence to call Panellus serotinus Sarcomyxa serotina.

Yes. Look at the tree in this paper
By: Chris Neefus (Chris Neefus)
2017-11-24 11:24:02 CST (-0500)
Data?
By: Alden Dirks (aldendirks)
2017-11-24 11:15:29 CST (-0500)

Is there a published morphological analysis or phylogenetic tree to support that? At a macro-morphological level, Panellus stipticus and Panellus serotinus have lots of traits in common, for example the characteristic short stipe and lateral Pleurotus-like growth. I haven’t compared the two microscopically.

Much more macroscopically dissimilar fungi have been placed in the same genera. Without citing a reference that indicates otherwise, I don’t see why we should label this as something different from the currently accepted name.

Compare
By: walt sturgeon (Mycowalt)
2017-11-24 11:06:32 CST (-0500)

With Panellus stipticus. These should not be in the same genus.

Taxonomy
By: Alden Dirks (aldendirks)
2017-11-24 10:56:55 CST (-0500)

Why is Pannelus serotinus being labeled as Sarcomyxa serotina? Index Fungorum and Mycobank both list Panellus serotinus as the current name.

Created: 2017-11-24 10:48:21 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2017-11-24 18:22:27 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 124 times, last viewed: 2019-10-18 15:38:46 CDT (-0400)
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