Observation 48359: Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

When: 2009-11-03

Collection location: Westmoreland Co., Pennsylvania, USA [Click for map]

Who: Hamilton (ham)

No specimen available


[admin – Sat Aug 14 02:07:45 +0000 2010]: Changed location name from ‘Westmoreland County, PA’ to ‘Westmoreland Co., Pennsylvania, USA


Copyright © 2010 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton
Copyright © 2009 Hamilton

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2010-07-12 09:30:59 CDT (-0400)

A reddish cap center is one thing, an entirely red amerimuscaria in the east is another and has never been documented.

There are plenty of observations here at MO of persicina with defined rings at the base and a whitish rather than yellow stipe apex.

It may not be common this far north, but it’s not unheard of..

“The species is known from the Gulf Coast states of the US north to the sandy coastal plains of eastern Long Island, New York, and the Canadian Hemlock (Tsuga canadensis)-northern hardwood forests of northwestern New Jersey. The most northern known collections have been made since 1998.” Rod

Good day, Herby

By: Hamilton (ham)
2010-07-11 19:47:38 CDT (-0400)

I originally was calling these, to myself, Amanita muscaria var. guessowii but I thought it’d be more correct to call them A. amerimuscaria.

Pretty confused I am.

The center of the cap of A. muscaria var. guessowii
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-07-11 19:40:25 CDT (-0400)

…(yellow variant of A. amerimuscaria) can be VERY reddish red-orange.



there are no robust rings at stipe bases, only weakly attached ring fragments.

Note that the top of the stipe is NOT yellow (pure white in fact) in several collections that (it happens) were confirmed to be var. persicina both microscopically and by DNA studies (see the famous Geml et al. paper). Notice that these same pictures do not have caps colored like the ones in the present posting.

Without dried material, it is not possible to tell if the photographs posted here are A. muscaria var. persicina or not. Identification of pictures is about probabilities.


My only gill shot…
By: Hamilton (ham)
2010-07-11 14:40:45 CDT (-0400)

It’s kind of crappy, but maybe it’ll help. If not I’ll have to conduct a more thorough investigation in a couple months.

Forgive my ignorance.
By: Eric Smith (esmith)
2010-07-11 14:33:22 CDT (-0400)

I’ve never found Amanita muscaria var. persicina, and these mushrooms don’t look like (to me) what I find and post here as A. amerimuscaria. I was under the impression that the binomial Amanita amerimuscaria referred to A. muscaria var guessowii.
Here are the reasons for voting the way I did.
1 The color of the cap and warts
2 Like Herb said, I was under the impression that no red form of A. amerimuscaria occurs around here.
3 Weiliiiiii finds Amanita muscaria var. persicina and I felt his field experience was a good indicator.

OK not the most scientific reasoning.

Since reading the posted description, and looking at the other pics,I can say that the stem seems kind of yellow, and as noted by Hammy, yellowish towards the apex on some. I think the pileus in some of these pics could be called subviscid. These observations make me think Amanita muscaria var. persicina.

Am I wrong or could all this be cleared up by looking at the gill edges to see if they’re very floccose or not?

Concentric rings around the base of the stem…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-07-11 14:00:34 CDT (-0400)

The presence of such well-formed rings suggests that Hamilton’s naming is as probable or more probable than persicina. The latter has very weak (or no) rings around the base of the stem. Also, to date, persicina has not proved to be a common species north of the Mason-Dixon line.


Mushroom whisperer…
By: Hamilton (ham)
2010-07-11 10:46:50 CDT (-0400)


Hammy the Hamilton
By: AmatoxinApocalypse (AmatoxinApocalypse)
2010-07-11 10:45:57 CDT (-0400)

Hamilton, I have picked a ton of persicina so they call out to me when I see them, seriously.

Also the color of the pileus gave it away, as well as the base of the stipe in the first pic.

Lots of times I can’t tell a species from a photograph.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-07-11 10:29:10 CDT (-0400)

In fact, I probably should make guesses less often rather than more often.


By: Hamilton (ham)
2010-07-11 10:29:08 CDT (-0400)

These are some other shots from the same day. Sorry about the color balance and over-saturation. I didn’t realize that this was a site where everyone was exclusively pro photographers.

Anyhow, these mushrooms usually start off red on the cap, then turn from orange-red to yellow. Most of them are yellow from the ring to the apex of the stem. They have concentric rings around the base of the stem. Mature caps grew up to about 8 or 9 inches wide.

Thanks for the help.

What else could it be..
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2010-07-11 09:45:28 CDT (-0400)

The red form of A. amerimiuscaria doesn’t occur in the east.
I guess two possibilities are A. wellsii or A. flavoconia, but i doubt it.
Its certainly a muscaroid taxon.

The cap color is the classic pastel red of A. persicina and it also has a yellowish base.

If you think its not what i say it is Rod, then lets see some other names up there!:)

Better yet, post more pictures, Hamilton!

I don’t think a case can be made for persicina from this picture.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-07-11 09:01:43 CDT (-0400)

You can’t see the volva on the stipe base—in addition to the comments from Noah. I voted “doubtful”


By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2010-07-11 08:21:56 CDT (-0400)

you are looking at a picture that is over saturated and has screwed up color balance. just saying…

You agree…
By: Hamilton (ham)
2010-07-11 02:29:22 CDT (-0400)

…how can you and zim and Heeb I mean Herb Baker tell it’s Amanita muscaria var. persicina?

By: AmatoxinApocalypse (AmatoxinApocalypse)
2010-07-10 23:28:09 CDT (-0400)

I agree with Herb on this one, nice little bugger you got there Hamilton.

Created: 2010-07-10 14:45:39 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2012-01-28 13:30:35 CST (-0500)
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