Observation 50248: Amanita barrowsii A.H. Sm. nom. ms.

When: 2010-08-13

Collection location: Cottonwood Pass, Eagle Co., Colorado, USA [Click for map]

Who: Noah Siegel (Noah)

Specimen available

This just came in at the NAMA foray.

Bob Champman thought it was A. barrowsii, a unpublished Smith name

Edit, 8-14.
Bob went out and found more!

Cap 5-8cm across, not yet fully expanded, striation on the margin 15-20%
Stipe 9.5-11cm long, 15mm across, equal, stuffed with pith becoming hollow with age.
UV thick, tough.
Spores globose to subglobose around 9µm. mostly immature
Taste very sweet. Odor nil.

Proposed Names

43% (3)
Recognized by sight
46% (2)
Used references: Alexander Smith’s unpublished Ms. on Amanita and personal research at the MICH herbarium (Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor), specifically microscopic examination of a collection marked “Amanita barrowsii” containing six fruiting bodies. This collection is part of the basis of the description of “A. barrowsii” in the aforementioned manuscript.
-7% (2)
Recognized by sight: “Rules” 3 & 4…

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

= Observer’s choice
= Current consensus


Add Comment
to see the amanitas that were removed from this quasi-obsie
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2016-09-20 18:12:01 CEST (+0200)

go here: Observation #253028

The original finder and photographer of this collection, Bob Chapman, gave me express permission to post his photos on MO. Thanks Bob, for your ongoing and generous mycological efforts.

And back into the public view they go!

You’re welcome, MO users. It takes a village.

No you didn’t…
By: Britt Bunyard (Fungi magazine) (bbunyard)
2016-08-10 23:11:44 CEST (+0200)

read the rest of his email. And neither did the rest of the world. I certainly did not read it. And I didn’t read the previous email that provoked it. Or any previous conversations between anyone, ever, dating back to Day 1.

really kids?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2016-08-10 21:28:18 CEST (+0200)

fighting over what to call a useless obsie?

Here’s a thought … just make it more useful and add a damn photo, or the original damn photo.

Problem solved.

And Byrain, please, just stop. The more you push those folks, the more they’ll push back. What we really want here is a useful obsie, not endless pointless battles.

Jason broke “Imageless”…
By: Byrain
2016-08-10 19:06:25 CEST (+0200)

So I guess we have to use this name instead. :/

This observation is not even in a species list as far as I can see.

where did this photo go?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2016-08-10 18:52:07 CEST (+0200)

do you have a copy, Rod, and could you please put it back up here, somewhere, for all to see? If not you, perhaps Bob could put up his photos of it? After all, it wasn’t even Noah’s collection and it was from the NAMA foray, which is collaborative!

Imageless for species in dispute is rather less than useful.

I just read your page on “americrocea,” Rod, where you linked to this obsie and expressed the thought that it might be the same taxon as “barrowsii.”

The first two sequences to come back were from a 2010 foray in Colorado.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-12-11 15:52:52 CET (+0100)

The two “proposed fungal barcode” sequences differ by more than 7% of the characters. Field recognition of “barrowsii” seems to have some problems. We await more data.

Very best,


In Roosevelt, we’ve sampled all the possible barrowsii material from recent years…[edit]
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-12-07 18:45:45 CET (+0100)

and all the crocea-look-alikes from North America and Mexico, multiple collections of everything. We believe we have a schedule for attempting sequencing all of this in 2013, but schedules are intractable little animals.

But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!

With regard to the material in MICH that is labeled “barrowsii,” we can try getting samples during the efforts aimed at sequencing types of amanitas.


has anyone run the DNA comparison on this material vs the original barrowsii?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-12-07 17:27:53 CET (+0100)

In his initial description, Chuck Barrows claimed that the taste of barrowsii was initially sweet (like a velosa), then had a bitter aftertaste.

From the Barrows-Smith description…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-08-14 07:03:59 CEST (+0200)

A. barrowsii can be a pretty robust mushroom. The upper limit of stem width given by Barrows-Smith is about 0.8". Pretty hefty.

This specimen ought to be allowed to mature overnight (hopefully creating a spore print in the same time period) and then dried for future research. Congratulate the collector. Whether or not this is barrowsii, this is very interesting material.


Info concerning A. barrowsii
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-08-14 06:34:13 CEST (+0200)

[120/6/1] (7.8-) 8.8 – 11.1 (-13.0) × (6.2-) 8.0 – 10.2 (-11.0) µm, (L = 9.4 – 11.0 µm; L’ = 10.2 µm; W = 8.3 – 9.7 µm; W’ = 9.0 µm; Q = (1.02-) 1.05 – 1.25 (-1.47); Q = 1.11 – 1.18; Q’ = 1.14).

It should be noted that the above is based on six specimens, but they all came from a single collection:

NEW MEXICO—Santa Fe Co. – mtns. ca. Santa Fe, viii.1957 C. Barrows 506 (MICH)

Do you all have access to a microscope at the foray?

The pileus description for A. barrowsii is as follows:

“60 – 120 mm wide, orange, fading to dull orange, with metallic sheen, unchanging when cut or bruised, drying approx. tawny, obtuse, becoming broadly campanulate to plano-umbonate or broadly convex, viscid; context ??, unchanging when cut or bruised; margin nonstriate or only very slightly striate (about 5 mm long), nonappendiculate; universal veil absent.”


“free, close, white with warm orange cast, unchanging when cut or bruised, tawny in dried material, with pallid, crenulate edges, narrow; lamellulae no available information.”


“100 – 180 × 10 – 20 mm, pallid to buff and drying slightly paler than pileus, narrowing upward, with base buried 50 – 80 mm in substrate, squamulose from rupturing of stipe surface; context not recorded; exannulate, sometimes with floccose material near apex; universal veil as thick saccate volva, tough, exterior white, interior surface dull orange.”


“Gregarious, at 3000± m elev. Under Populus tremuloides or in mixed forest with P. tremuloides and conifers.”


I vaguely remember
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2010-08-14 05:49:11 CEST (+0200)

a comment in MD about A. crocea or something like that, resembling A. velosa but more orange, from the Rockies…

Created: 2010-08-14 00:04:01 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2016-09-20 18:12:34 CEST (+0200)
Viewed: 862 times, last viewed: 2019-03-17 05:56:51 CET (+0100)
Show Log