Observation 55726: Tricholoma arvernense Bon

Species Lists


Found not far from the place where the second picture was taken. Adding in case it might help.

Proposed Names

16% (2)
Recognized by sight
47% (2)
Recognized by sight
16% (2)
Used references: Dr. Lorelei L. Norvell

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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Arvernense vs. luteomaculosum
By: Steve Trudell (mycecol)
2011-08-14 15:15:46 CDT (-0400)

Arvernense should have smaller spores (4.5-7 um L vs. 6-8), clamps present (at least fairly frequent at base of basidia), no p.h. (see below), and occur with conifers.

Luteomaculosum larger spores, no clamps, pseudoparenchymatous hypodermium, and with hardwoods (according to Ovrebo).

Sava’s photos (first two at least) are much better matches to European photos and paintings of arvernense than they are to an Ovrebo photo of luteomaculosum I have seen.

Thanks, Drew
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2011-06-09 04:42:39 CDT (-0400)

That was interesting information! I have seen several other indications that the northern PNW states share mushrooms with Europe. Or at least very closely related ones.

By: Drew Parker (mycotrope)
2011-06-09 01:08:35 CDT (-0400)

This is an exciting find if it is arvernense, and it sure looks like the images I’ve seen of it . I wanted to mention that a collection I made in north Idaho in October 2008 was recently sequenced at Brandon Matheny’s lab and found to be a nearly identical match with that of a French collection labeled T. arvernense Bon. It has not been known from North America as far as I know.

Irene’s comments on its variability are interesting given that my collection is significantly paler than these with little yellow coloring on the cap at maturity and no noticeable reddening at the base. They were under hemlock.

Thanks for the link, myxomop!
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-10-18 15:43:06 CDT (-0400)

I have tried, but didn’t manage to find that particular paper in full text!

Now, the second picture that shows more stipes with reddish discoloration, makes me beleive even stronger that this actually IS arvernense.
I’m looking forward to see Lorelei Norwell’s conclusion.

Thanks to all!
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-10-18 15:34:30 CDT (-0400)

I’m adding another picture that shows a little better the stature aspect myxomop is referring to. The two pictures are from sites about 5km apart.

This image
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2010-10-18 13:21:03 CDT (-0400)

doesn’t let on just how long and slender some of these specimens were. Other than an obvious difference in cap color, a drastic difference in stature was the first thing to jump out at me upon looking at the Swedish photos T. arvenense. Nor throughout all of the handling and pondering of these most dumbfounding Trichs on the table was there ever any observation of reddening at the base.

That said, the description of T. luteomaculosum in this 1986 Mycologia article (http://tinyurl.com/26atynz) is wrought with dissimilarities of its own.

Lorelei is somewhere in the midst of conducting microscopy on our 250-some specimens from this year’s show, and the troublemakers are at the front of the queue. Perhaps we will know more by way of her work in the coming days.

Debbie, you’re not alone
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-10-18 12:14:14 CDT (-0400)

having trouble with Trichs.

What I can say about this obs, is that it looks exactly like the one I find with pine here in northern Sweden, and arvernense is what we call it now. Besides the typical cap colour, the macro characters are farinaceous smell and taste, with a bit acrid aftertaste, gills yellowing at the cap margin, sometimes yellow patches on the stem, often reddening at the stem base.

It was formerly included in Tricholoma sejunctum, which is said to be a southern hardwood species (with beech and oak).
It troubles me though, that I can’t find evidence of any DNA comparison between these two species…

All variety names are a mess too. The french have been very fond of creating new names and varieties based on colours, but I have seen how extremely this arvernense can vary in cap colours, from metallic bronze, through all shades of yellow, and fading to almost white, with varying amount of dark grey fibrils in the cap.

I can’t really know what you have of this species cluster in North America, but it looks to me like we could have some of them in common, and some different.
For example, Peck’s subsejunctum seems close to what I call viridilutescens (viscid but soon dry, yellowish green/black cap and growing with spruce). Some european authors have made them synonyms (but they have been mistaken before). Others have made viridilutescens a synonym to sejunctum, leaving the black and green spruce species without a name..

But you also have the strongly umbonate and strikingly reddening davisiae. We have nothing similar to that one as far as I can tell.
And we have some others close to sejunctum, Tricholoma luridum and guldenii – not clear to me what they are.

what features say T. arvenense to you, Irene?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2010-10-18 09:45:57 CDT (-0400)

I have trouble with trichs, and could use all the help that you can give!

It is very interesting to me that the PNW and Scandinavia share mushroom species. Not just from Alaska (you were hugely helpful in helping to ID my Alaskan collections), but apparently Washington state, too.

Interesting Tricholoma
By: walt sturgeon (Mycowalt)
2010-10-18 09:36:55 CDT (-0400)

Good photo but I agree with Irene that it does not fit T. luteomaculosum. Maybe Lorelei was thinking of another species and said the wrong one?

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-10-18 06:18:17 CDT (-0400)

do you have any links that show descriptions/pictures of luteomaculosum?

The only useful picture I could find, looks like this:

All descriptions I have found, tell me that it has a dark brownish gray cap..

Created: 2010-10-18 00:57:29 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2010-10-25 01:38:45 CDT (-0400)
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