When: 2011-10-15

Collection location: Upper Priest River, Idaho, USA [Click for map]

Who: Drew Parker (mycotrope)

No specimen available


Proposed Names

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= Observer’s choice
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So for now…
By: Drew Parker (mycotrope)
2014-11-04 18:50:31 CST (-0500)

I’m happy to use Clitocybe dilatata for the non-bluing in PDAB one, and Clitocybe connata for the bluing one for the time being. At least C. dilitata is a familiar and widely used name. How useful Noah’s morphological differences are is hard to say without significant PDABing on wide ranging populations, which for all I know, he’s done.

synonyms and our interpretations
By: else
2014-11-04 12:10:58 CST (-0500)

the name Clitocybe connata is indeed a synonym of Lyophyllum connatum – it is based on the same name and description.
Our interpretation of these names is a different story. we can call it Clitocybe connata, but that does not automatically mean that it belongs in Clitocybe.

It is clear that there are two species, one turning blue with PDAB and one not turning blue with PDAB. what to calll them, is something else.

this is a perfect example of the difference between taxonomy and nomenclature.

i want to add that i would like to see the material tested that was used for the molecular analysis on which the decision was based to place L. connatum in Clitocybe. and i would like to know what the position of Clitocybe dilatata is in the phylogenetic trees. This group in particular is subject to the creation of several new genera.

By: Drew Parker (mycotrope)
2014-11-03 23:37:45 CST (-0500)

Christian. The PDAB reaction is obviously significant for arguing for two species, but there is still a little fuzziness here. Is all this compatible with Lyophyllum Connatum being a synonym of Clitocybe connata, as in some Clitocybes blue in PDAB and others not? And, apparently they may not be clearly seperable aside from the PDAB test.

I don’t know if it’s published
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2014-11-03 15:59:26 CST (-0500)

in a particular paper, but Lyophyllum in general show the blue PDAB reaction (as well as Tephrocybe and others near it).

At NAMA 2014, nobody appeared able to consistently predict which collections would go blue in PDAB (supposedly Lyophyllum connatum) from non-reactive specimens (theoretically Clitocybe dilatata).

By: Drew Parker (mycotrope)
2014-11-03 15:45:17 CST (-0500)

for the information, Noah. I hadn’t seen this anywhere. Can you cite the paper it’s from, or post a link?

As far as I know…
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2014-11-03 13:29:31 CST (-0500)

Lyophyllum connatum is a somewhat smaller species with less wavy caps, and a blue PDAB reaction.

Most of the large white clusters in the PNW are Clitocybe dilatata.