When: 2011-12-28

Collection location: Salt Point State Park, Sonoma Co., California, USA [Click for map]

Who: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)

No specimen available


Proposed Names

-5% (2)
Recognized by sight: in deliciosus group.
bright orange zonate cap, orange latex, inrolled margin when young, non-scrobiculate stipe with white apex. too young to be green (yet)!
71% (3)
Recognized by sight: Orange cap, (often zonate to sub-zonate), bright orange latex, lack of distinct green staining and growth with Abies.
25% (2)
Recognized by sight

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

= Observer’s choice
= Current consensus


Add Comment
have just reread the Nuytinck “deliciosus” paper from 2007.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2015-09-08 03:45:01 CST (+0800)

inferring species from tree hosts alone is apparently much more of a European thing. Here’s the quote from that paper:

“The well documented host specificity of the European species has yet to be confirmed for North American and Asian species. The mostly mixed woods in North America can complicate the host designation. Some species presumably are associated with more than one host (e.g. L. indigo is reported with Pinus and Quercus). The host switch from Pinaceae to Fagaceae or the other way around must have occurred at least twice. Careful comparative host-specificity and host-preference studies are necessary to verify these suggestions and draw more conclusions.”

Alas, even macro and micro morph characters can be similar across species lines, except for the much larger spores found in L. deliciosus var. areolatus:

“Lactarius deliciosus var. areolatus is characterized by its distinctly larger spores and the lack of pleuromacrocystidia and is reported to be the most common variety of “L. deliciosus” in western North America (Hesler and Smith 1979, Methven 1997). Other varieties are mainly distinguished by the presence and abundance of pleuromacrocystidia, the color of the pileus and the staining reaction of the context, three characters that show intraspecific variability in this section.”

In other words, “deliciosus” IDs are no slam dunk, and there is lots of morpho variability even within species.

Easy as pie to get your mushroom to “deliciosus group.” All bets are off beyond that, and very few of these newly proposed NA deliciosus names, like “aestivus” and “aurantiosordidus” have even gotten accepted after publication.

We are still a way from clarity on these “delicious” mushrooms. BTW, they really ARE delicious, if prepared properly.

Don’t believe everything you hear.

yup, those are grand fir needles!
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-10-05 23:47:27 CST (+0800)

along with the pine and redwood and tan oak.

IF this fb really doesn’t green with age (unknown), and it doesn’t have to be zonate (as described in the original paper), and it occurs in mixed forests as well as pure stands, then it could be aestivus.

The forest
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2014-10-05 23:29:25 CST (+0800)

doesn’t have to be dominated by fir/hemlock, just need one tree…

except …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-10-05 23:27:22 CST (+0800)

THIS mushroom was collected in a mixed forest (see duff), not in a forest “dominated by Abies and Tsuga.”

Beyond that, it “could be” aestivas, but whether it actually is has not been proven.

Please, do put up your photos of it from SP, for comparison. Please show duff as well, to demonstrate that your collections were found in forests dominated by fir and hemlock.

My photo clearly shows that was not so.

I am very fimilar with this species,
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2014-10-05 23:12:55 CST (+0800)

having collected it many times in the PNW and CA coast, with northern Sonoma Co being the southern limit of it’s range.

Salt Point is the right habitat, there are spots that are Western Hemlock/Grand Fir dominated forest in that park, with Grand Fir being common and widespread throughout Salt Point.

You should probably stop saying “NOT”, because you are wrong a lot more often then you are right.

If you are unwilling to accept it, so be it. I will continue to propose names and vote how I see accordingly.

here’s a snip from the recent paper by Nuytinck and Ammirati…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-10-05 22:58:33 CST (+0800)

“One common undescribed Pacific Northwest species, which begins fruiting rather early in the season, is described here as Lactarius aestivus sp. nov. It is found in conifer forests dominated by Abies Mill. and Tsuga Carrière, and is characterized by bright orange latex and zonate, bright to pale orange pileus that only rarely stains greenish.”

that SP habitat does NOT fit! Time of fruiting is our midseason, not early season. SP is NOT the PNW. Also, this cap is not zonate. Online publication of this sp. was only a week ago and it is not currently accepted on either IF or Mycobank.

Your ID is premature, and based on assumption not actual evidence. A lack of green coloration on an immature fb is not evidence that it won’t green with time.

hard to honestly put an “I’d call it that” …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-10-05 22:36:12 CST (+0800)

on this sighting, since no fir was observed or fir litter observed and the fb was still young. Who knows what it would look like with age?

different spot…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2011-12-30 23:43:13 CST (+0800)

mixed woods.

litter=redwood, pine and tanoak. didn’t notice any Noble Fir, but wasn’t looking, either.

Is this with pine?
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2011-12-30 23:37:06 CST (+0800)
Same spot?
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2011-12-30 13:46:02 CST (+0800)

or was a different collection under pine?

what it looks like…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2011-12-30 12:30:20 CST (+0800)
It’’s not going to green much.
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2011-12-30 12:20:17 CST (+0800)

This one grows with Abies and greens just slightly and slowly when damaged.